Holly Payne
Holly Payne and I met at Capitola Book Cafe when her first novel The Virgin's Knot came out. The West Coast book party for the release of her second book The Sound of Blue at Fort Mason in SF rocked a packed house.
A few years ago, I guest lectured at a screenwriting class she taught. Her students, in the throws of writing their final projects, focused with such intensity on the plot and scene examples based on sucessful books made into movies I watched for the visual aides to burst into flames -- an apt tribute to Holly and her passion for learning and teaching the art of writing.
Holly recently released her third novel and, most agree, her best yet, Kingdom of Simplicity.
Blockbuster Plots [BBP]: How do you go about plotting your books?
Holly Payne [HP]:
I think in pictures and Kingdom of Simplicity began with an image, just like my first novel, The Virgin’s Knot. Once an image comes to me, I realize it’s the beginning of a novel. Not so much the first scene, but an image that will give rise to many questions, which I then have to figure out. I wish I could say the story just flows, but I spend months asking questions, why would X be doing Y and what was X doing before that and after that? I have to ask myself a series of questions that lead up to the image and proceed it. My process is a bit of an investigation and treasure hunt. I’m after the gem — the point of the story, but I don’t often know what that is until I’m in the midst of writing it. If I know who the story is about and what they want, or even better, what they’re avoiding, I can figure out why and realize that’s the lesson they’re meant to learn in the journey of their story, even if they don't know why. I have to know this to make sure I put the appropriate road blocks on their path. That's where the fun starts.
BBP: Are you a pre-plotter or after the fact?
HP: I'm a pious plotter – but not the way it's traditionally taught. The reason? I ended up writing about 400 pages of a novel, my first novel, that ended up being recycled to print out the actual novel I would submit – only three years later. I was very young and forced myself to get up early in the morning, like there was a trumpet at my desk --- except it wasn't a very pleasant sounding horn, more like a sick cow moaning which didn't make the experience very fun. I just sat there and wrote and wrote and wrote without a clue as to what I was trying to write, or any true practice in applying story structure. That was the most painful writing experience of my life because after all those hours and all those words – some of which weren't that bad, none of them added up to a hill of beans, pardon the cliché, when it came time for the story to talk to me and tell me what it was really about. So, I had to start over. Seriously. I had to put that entire first draft, actually, I can't even call it that. Let's just say I had to put the Love Mess (because it was indeed a labor of love) in the drawer and face the facts. I needed to learn what the hell I was doing. I needed to study the design of other novels and respect the architecture so that my words would hold up someday, too. My husband always says that's why I married him. He's an architect and we often marvel at the similarities in our process. I now take at least three months in story development, taking lots of notes, allowing any scenes to emerge, and figuring out what my characters want, what they're plan is to get that and how that will inevitably unravel. Just like life, right? Not that I'm a pessimist. But it's often quite fascinating to look at how human beings get their needs met. We often forget that though we can have our dreams, our plans to achieving them will almost always be something other than what we thought. And so we have to rethink – do we really want what we think we want? Or is what we want in conflict with what we actually need to learn? That's the key to my understanding of what true plot is.
BBP: What methods did you find particularly useful in plotting out your project?
HP: I'm addicted to outlines and story boards and they keep changing as I develop the story. I used a huge piece of butcher paper to lay out my third novel and hung it on the wall above my desk when I wrote Kingdom of Simplicity. Having learned a tough lesson with my first book, I spent about 6 months in story development and wouldn't allow myself to write any actual pages until I had a solid foundation. Even knowing this, there were many things I didn't know about my story – like themes, or why particular characters seemed to take on greater significance while I was writing. It's important to let the connective tissue of the story emerge while you're writing, but do the hard work of fusing the bones before you start. I wanted to create a healthy story body and the "story board" hung above my desk helped me stay focused and see the most salient points of my story. It was like a big map, guiding me to the finish, even on the days when I never thought I'd write the best two words: The End. It was the most enjoyable writing experience of my life even though the publishing part was the most daunting. I have to laugh about that now. My former office mate, another writer, knew when I was having a good day or a bad day as chunks of the story board would disappear from the wall at times. The huge gap reminded me that something was wrong and I had to go back and redo outlines, etc. to find the solution.
BBP: Do you consciously develop thematic significance?
HP: No. Lajos Egri might roll in his grave if he ever knew I wrote this. I believe in theme arising naturally from the actions a person takes. In other words, just like we all have our psychological patterns, so do our characters. I don't know about you, my own life patterns reflect a theme and that theme shifts when my needs shift. At one point it was about trust, another time self-worth. Once I see such a pattern developing in my story, I can then see the theme. Then I go back and search for opportunities in the story where I can develop and give depth to that theme without taking the reader out of the fictional dream I'm striving to create.
BBP: Are you a character-driven writer or action-driven?
HP: I love this question because I think it's asking the same thing. I often teach other writers that story is what a character does. There's no other way to think about that. In effect, if you know what your character wants – because they are trying to solve a problem, fill a need, avoid something, hide something, etc. then all of their actions, the rising actions, will naturally arise from that initial desire! It's so logical. You don't have to complicate it. If you follow this, all the events will be there naturally. I should point out that I'm not a fan of character bios. I don't think they're necessary. In life, just as in fiction, you don't really know a person based on the kind of shoes they were, their wardrobe or even their religion and politics. You know a person's deep character (which is very different from characteristics as reflected in those bios) when they are forced to act under pressure. This deep character is what your plot will reveal as it tests your character's resolve to get what they want or to confront whatever it is they've been avoiding. I might be grossly simplifying something so richly complicated and complex as the human condition, but I truly believe that's why we tell stories in the first place. To reflect the human experience in all its depth -- what we all do to get our most basic needs met. Every story, even the most 'plot heavy' are internal stories. After all, isn't our external reality a reflection and manifestation of the story we tell ourselves is 'ours?'
BBP: Plot tips to share?
HP: Music, photography, film and architecture can teach a novelist wonderful aspects about the importance of design and structure. Even a knowledge of dance can inform a novelist about pacing and rhythms, about how movement between people can reveal their relationship to each other and the world. With music, I often make up a sound track for my novels and listen to it when I'm writing – even changing the titles of the songs on my I-Tunes to reflect my story, like "Eli's Song" etc. which I did for Kingdom of Simplicity. Often the emotion of a song gives rise to internalization that I need to express for a character, or sets off an action that I didn't know a character would take, and I'm able to figure out one more plot point along the journey.
Learn more about Holly and her books.